[deleted]

It is incredibly interesting how the US (and Germany) have put so much into Israel and associated groups they really don't want it to fail (despite the Israeli gov doing their damnest to facilitate just that). In my understanding Israel, in the eyes of the US, is a convenient "wedge" in the Arab space that allows for easier power projection in the area, plus they have a healthy amount of zionists close to money and power at home. I imagine the political calculus of if and how to support it is ridiculously difficult.

Useless except if the following done on the US side:<p>Remove exception to AIPAC political status<p>Reevaluate AIPAC non profit status entirely<p>Replicate EO 14046 for Israel which adds the entire ruling party and head of state and spouses and military and affiliated business to the OFAC list<p>all of this is easy and doesn’t require Congress<p>but nobody is close to considering those actions with regard to Israel. Notably, other nation’s organizations do not enjoy this courtesy<p>(Don’t sorry guys, Hamas is already on these lists too)

I'm afraid the latest spate of "recognizing the state of Palestine" is not, in fact, a sign of coming relief for the people there, but rather a spigot to relieve domestic pressure to engage in substantive actions (sanctions, pressuring the US and other suppliers of arms to engage in sanctions, let alone sending peacekeepers or no-fly zones).<p>Regardless of how much you're personally invested in the topic, this should break the hearts of everyone who dreamed that the international community could hold each other legally accountable. Indeed, the US would rather sanction individuals at the ICJ than acknowledge any sort of legitimacy—even as our own politicians accuse Russia of engaging in "war crimes". I have no doubt that they are, in fact, I think that the evidence is quite damning. But the double standard is striking, as is the difference between the footage visible on social media and what is acknowledged when you turn on the TV or open the paper.

I for one will be holding my representatives responsible who continue to vote for the US to enable a genocide. The videos coming out of Gaza have turned me and many others into single issue voters.

I see a lot of comments here are about how other countries should react to this designation, rightfully so.<p>I wonder also though, how Israel will react. Is this anything new for them?

From John Spencer, a retired United States Army officer, researcher of urban warfare, and author.<p>> The U.N. Genocide Report Against Israel Is an Assault on Critical Thinking<p><a href="https://freebeacon.com/israel/the-u-n-genocide-report-against-israel-is-an-assault-on-critical-thinking/" rel="nofollow">https://freebeacon.com/israel/the-u-n-genocide-report-agains...</a>

Every time I've looked into the arguments for this being a genocide, I saw, at best, a description of urban warfare. Maybe I am wrong. If anyone is still reading this thread, could you write what you believe will happen after Israel won the war?

Seeing PG slowly turn on this issue, from nothing into recognition and now into advocacy has been wild. Presumably because he has kids, and like many parents you understand with your eyes first, and then your heart.<p>PG wields some amount of power in SV, but YC and others are still inextricably tied to what's happening. Thiel was just in Israel with elad gil, rabois, alex karp, joe lonsdale. It's just too much to list.<p>I guess my point is when does recognition turn into action.

Comments on this post are disabled for new accounts, but in the era of anti-BDS regulation and other measures aimed specifically at curtailing practical freedom of speech surrounding this conflict, can we really comment freely on this without anonymity? The <i>vast majority</i> (38/50) of US states have passed some form of anti-BDS legislation. We can also expect corporate retaliation against employees who speak about this issue in a "wrong way".

Seeing the number of flagged comments, and going from past discussions where any discussion seen as pushback was flagged, this discussion really doesn't belong on hacker news.

i'm ashamed of how long it took, i don't even know what words to use to explain that life matters, that all lives have the same value, and that death is bad

The trouble is, what is the right medium or long term solution. If Israel militarily fails as a state, which seems to me to be an implicit aim of a significant number of anti-Israel folks, the results will make the current Gaza conflict look like a joke.

[deleted]

[deleted]

Wonder why this made the frontpage when other political articles die.<p>Has the rules around political non technical articles changed? Can we get an Epstein thread for the frontpage sometime this week?

UN Watch Rebuttal: Legal Analysis of Pillay Commission’s September 2025 Report to Human Rights Council<p>"This rebuttal examines the central defects of the UN report (the “Report”) issued by the Commission of Inquiry (the “Commission”). It shows why the evidence presented cannot sustain a finding of genocide under international law. A summary of its main deficiencies are as follows:<p>1. Failure to prove dolus specialis: The specific intent to destroy a protected group is the central and extremely high bar in any genocide case. The Commission’s claim of genocidal intent fails on this threshold alone, relying on tortured parsing of statements, selective quotations, and conjecture rather than unambiguous evidence.<p>2. Erasure of Hamas as a belligerent: The report never acknowledges that the IDF is engaged in combat with an estimated 30,000-strong Hamas force in Gaza as well as thousands of fighters from other militant groups. A reader would come away believing the war has the IDF deployed against only women and children, with Hamas erased from the narrative. The Commission makes no attempt to analyze the war itself, because in its alternative version of reality, there is none.<p>3. Silence on Hamas’s military infrastructure: There is no mention of Hamas’s 17-year military buildup in Gaza, including its vast tunnel network, booby-trapped buildings, and massive arms buildup. By ignoring this reality, the report strips the conflict of its military context and recasts lawful military targets as evidence of genocide.<p>4. Erasure of Hamas’s use of civilian infrastructure: The Commission ignores Hamas’s openly acknowledged human shield strategy,[2] including its use of mosques, schools, residential buildings, and hospitals to conceal tunnels and weapons. Instead, damage to these sites is consistently portrayed as deliberate targeting of civilians by Israel.<p>5. No recognition of the hostage crisis: The report omits the fact that Hamas took Israeli hostages and continues to hold them, starve them,[3] and rape them.[4] This omission is consistent with the broader erasure of Hamas as an active actor in Gaza, removing essential context from the Commission’s narrative.<p>6. Reliance on Hamas-supplied fatality data: Despite Hamas’s long record of exaggerating civilian deaths and its status as a US and EU-designated terrorist organization, its figures are treated as fact while IDF data on combatants killed is ignored.<p>7. Civilian deaths distorted as evidence of genocide: The report presents civilian casualties as prima facie proof of genocidal intent rather than as tragic and unavoidable consequences of urban warfare, exacerbated by Hamas’s human shield strategy. The Report cites numerous incidents where civilians were killed as intentional and targeted acts by Israel without evidence.<p>8. Normal wartime consequences treated as crimes: Regular and expected wartime impacts on civilians, such as mental health impacts, difficulty accessing medical care and displacement, are depicted as evidence of genocide rather than inevitable outcomes of urban conflict.<p>9. Urban devastation portrayed as extermination: Large-scale damage is cited as proof of genocide, ignoring that urban combat inherently produces extensive destruction, particularly when military forces are embedded within civilian areas.<p>The Commission also ignores the obvious: the suffering of Gazans could be significantly reduced or even ended if Hamas released all hostages and relinquished control of Gaza. The idea that the population experiencing the claimed genocide has the power to stop it but refuses to is unprecedented in the history of actual genocides and exposes a deliberate blind spot in the Report. This omission mirrors the Commission’s broader erasure of Hamas as an active party in the conflict, a group with agency and responsibility, leaving readers with the false impression that all suffering in Gaza is solely Israel’s responsibility."<p><a href="https://unwatch.org/un-watch-rebuttal-legal-analysis-of-pillay-commissions-september-2025-report-to-human-rights-council/" rel="nofollow">https://unwatch.org/un-watch-rebuttal-legal-analysis-of-pill...</a>

[deleted]

[deleted]

There's a bit of an IQ test with this stuff. Obviously Israel and Hamas will both say whatever is most advantageous to them - of course one side will claim genocide and one will deny it, neither is meaningful.<p>A friend was telling me that Gaza has been starving for for 2 years so we looked back on the headlines and they said "brink of starvation" - so like - being on the brink for 2 years means you weren't on the brink?<p>Lastly Israel is clearly less restrained now than I've ever seen it. But like they were accused of genocide forever. So those accusations were false but now it's really happening? But if they had been restrained all along then they are the moral party?<p>I am not trying to persuade for a side it's just funny how so many posters here are like "ohhh we have the real and moral information here" when it's obvious that's not even available.

For some reason, I don't see this news mentioned on any mainstream media across the political spectrum (Al Jazeera --> Guardian --> BBC --> CNN / NYT / NPR --> Fox News).<p>Could be that I just missed it, but seems odd.

Conclusion:<p>" 251. The Commission’s analysis in this report relates solely to the determination of genocide under the Genocide Convention as it relates to the responsibility of the State of Israel both for the failure to prevent genocide, for committing genocide against the Palestinians in Gaza since October 2023 and for the failure to punish genocide. The Commission also notes that, while its analysis is limited to the Palestinians specifically in Gaza during the period since 7 October 2023, it nevertheless raises the serious concern that the specific intent to destroy the Palestinians as a whole has extended to the rest of the occupied Palestinian territory, that is, the West Bank, including East Jerusalem, based on Israeli authorities’ and Israeli security forces’ actions therein, and to the period before 7 October 2023. The events in Gaza since 7 October 2023 have not occurred in isolation, as the Commission has noted. They were preceded by decades of unlawful occupation and repression under an ideology requiring the removal of the Palestinian population from their lands and its replacement.<p>252. The Commission concludes on reasonable grounds that the Israeli authorities and Israeli security forces have committed and are continuing to commit the following actus reus of genocide against the Palestinians in the Gaza Strip, namely (i) killing members of the group; (ii) causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group; (iii) deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part; and (iv) imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group.<p>253. On incitement to genocide, the Commission concludes that Israeli President Isaac Herzog, Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu and then Defence Minister Yoav Gallant, have incited the commission of genocide and that Israeli authorities have failed to take action against them to punish this incitement. The Commission has not fully assessed statements by other Israeli political and military leaders, including Minister for National Security Itamar Ben-Gvir and Minister for Finance Bezalel Smotrich, and considers that they too should be assessed to determine whether they constitute incitement to commit genocide.<p>254. On the mens rea of genocide, the Commission concludes that statements made by Israeli authorities are direct evidence of genocidal intent. In addition, the Commission concludes that the pattern of conduct is circumstantial evidence of genocidal intent and that genocidal intent was the only reasonable inference that could be drawn from the totality of the evidence. Thus, the Commission concludes that the Israeli authorities and Israeli security forces have had and continue to have the genocidal intent to destroy, in whole or in part, the Palestinians in the Gaza Strip.<p>255. The Commission concludes that the State of Israel bears responsibility for the failure to prevent genocide, the commission of genocide and the failure to punish genocide against the Palestinians in the Gaza Strip."

What charity can one donate to? I just can't stand just doing nothing anymore.

What, they thought it might've actually been Egypt before this whole time?

For the 100th time?

Unfortunately, Trump’s support for Israel is still “unwavering “. So we’ll continue to aid and abet arguably the most horrific human atrocity outside Africa (Rwanda, Sudan etc) in very long time. You might have to go back to Pol Pot; even the suppression of the Rohingya by Myanmar isn’t at the scale of the complete destruction of Gaza by Israel.

Never ceases to amuse me how people tend to cling to a position unconsciosly, then try to rationalize this unconscios act.<p>US and west are all about some perceived genocide, while inside Israel, half want to surrender to Hamas or whoever because hostages, and the other half had had enough (of almost 80-year war) and just want to be done with it, and the third half wants to study Tora and do nothing, but be fed by the other two halves.<p>This is ridiculous and very bloody.<p>Can we please just be rational?

Both the Palestinian people and Jewish people are indigenous to Israel/Palestine.<p>No one side has the right to commit genocide against the other. At some point, there will have to be a two state solution.<p>The current Israeli government is indeed genocidal. Cabinet ministers have referred to the Palestinian people as a whole (not just Hamas) as an enemy and the IDF is carrying out the genocide.<p>This also means that by proxy the US is funding the military of a genocidal regime.<p>Just as providing Hamas with weapons is a terrible idea, giving them to Israel in its current state is an equally terrible idea.

Why is this posted on a tech news site?

@dang isn’t this the exact kind of story HN isn’t supposed to have?

This is not tech related and does not belong on hacker news

[dead]

[dead]

Lol, Qatar is currently in that council- Quatar aka the muslim brotherhood aka hamas.. Hamas concludes this and tells this..

[deleted]

[flagged]

[flagged]

[flagged]

[flagged]

[flagged]

[flagged]

[flagged]

[flagged]

[flagged]

[flagged]

[flagged]

[flagged]

[flagged]

[flagged]

[flagged]

[flagged]

[flagged]

[flagged]

[flagged]

[flagged]

[flagged]

[flagged]

[flagged]

[flagged]

[flagged]

[flagged]

[flagged]

[flagged]

[flagged]

[flagged]

[flagged]

[flagged]

[flagged]

[flagged]

May we remain condemned for our failure to stop this for all of time.

Combined with the other ongoing conflicts it really feels like we’re in a WW3 era

There is no discussion only mass flagging for anyone who isnt in lockstep on this. This is why politics is usually a subject to be avoided.<p>I am sure i will be flagged despite completely agreeing with the UN here but if any real change is to happen, minds must be changed which mass flagging does nothing to help. It only further entrenches people. But hey, at least it feels good right? Righteous and all that.<p>For those who disagree with the UN here, id be happy to change your mind. The us should not be involved in any of this.

The UN’s teeth appear to be red white and blue.

Hopefully we are at the beginning of a change, but I doubt this will come only from the UN.<p>The UN is the only international democratic institution that - even with its many imperfections - prevents the world to fall into complete anarchy. It's quite telling that it gets ignored since so many years by the country that elevates itself as the world defender of democracy, the US.<p>The UN has voted for <i>decades</i> for ending the embargo towards Cuba. Every year the outcome of the vote, which has always resulted in a great majority demanding the immediate end of the embargo, has been ignored by the US, resulting in millions of Cubans facing extreme economic consequences since many decades. The last time <i>every</i> country except Israel and US voted for ending the embargo (I might be wrong, maybe a single African state abstained).<p>In all of this, the only seed of joy I see, was seeing the Cubans a couple of years ago, after decades and decades of seeing their economy strangled by the most powerful country on Earth, roll out their own Covid vaccine just at the same time of those of big Pharma - a vaccine that resulted excellent, effective, and cheap. Hats off for the Cubans. Hope to see some other seed like this also in the Palestinians.

Title: Top UN legal investigators conclude Israel is guilty of genocide in Gaza<p>Reality: The report was written by a 3 person UNHRC commission, which itself is seated by Ethiopia, Congo, Sudan, and Qatar.

The term "genocide" isn't tossed around lightly in international law. The fact that the UN commission is now saying they found "fully conclusive evidence" of genocidal intent by Israel's leadership is going to put massive pressure on other states, especially those who've been backing Israel diplomatically or militarily

Well, I guess in Ukraine there is no genocide, ruzzia can proceed to do whatever it wants. I love how sometimes people support terror sometimes not. It depends how it is presented and how strong propaganda is, and hamas propaganda is pretty strong.

Counting destroying a fertility clinic as "Preventing births within the group" makes this conclusion technically correct, but silly.

The Chair of this "independent" inquiry is Navi Pillay of South Africa (<a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Independent_International_Commission_of_Inquiry_on_the_Occupied_Palestinian_Territory" rel="nofollow">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Independent_International_Comm...</a>); the nation which accused Israel of genocide and referred it to the ICJ. The outcome of this inquiry was always going to be highly partisan. The report's definition rests upon statements by key Israeli officials in determining genocidal intent. While the statements are accurate, in a democracy, individual representatives do not constitute a single will. If the standard used here were applied to other international conflicts in which civilians were killed, as long as just <i>one</i> governing official were to have made genocidal remarks (and they used a fairly wide range), the entire conflict could be ruled to be genocide. Thus the standard used by Pillay and co-authors is so far removed from anything applied to any other nation and conflict that I find the entire exercise farcical.<p>I await the ICJ ruling, as I regard that institution as reasonably impartial.

It's always useful to balance these claims against their critics.<p>Towards that end I offer up unwatch.<p><a href="https://unwatch.org/" rel="nofollow">https://unwatch.org/</a>